- Yes. I don't mind jumping on that grenade. I'm carrying a big sloshy bucket of stigma around with me already. It's fine.

- TBH, we don't have anyone in here with enough access to anything they are willing to give up to be damning enough to be worth the leak at this point.

- So it's probably a moot point.

- Don't doubt Charlie's ability to find grenades to jump on

- lol

- He'd probably just start playing EVE anyways

- I hear it's got some good spreadsheets.

- Unrelated maybe, but we have a couple flip floppers who were running off at the mouth recently after flipping BACK to ENL... They named names of which res locally have access to "the tool". Which matches up with one of the supposed scrapers running his mouth in xfaction... Something to the effect of "we let Europe do our scraping for us"

- Europe is great at tools, haven't you noticed?

- It may all just be a bunch of hot air...

- They are

- Supposedly

- SOP, V, Rocks

- on our side
.....17.10.2017 14:36:05, Scott Lykens (@5parkee): >>unsupported service message type: messageActionChatJoinedByLink<<

- Whistle is moving slow, but she's moving.

- Trying to check the api thing.

- While we're waiting, this is an important thing to consider. If we do this job well, we are reasonably likely to have to put our money where our mouths are with regarding to exposing things on the ENL side as well.

- That would be even more divisive than the original guardian discussion.

- We're pretty smart, resourceful people. If we wanted to dig out a distributed ENL scraper engine, I think we could.

- But I don't know if I would. As much as I despise scraping, I don't know that it would be worth the trust I would have to gain and break to do that.

- People have already floated a couple of ideas in DMs, and they're workable. They involve outside actors I don't want to expose just yet but... yeah. They're workable avenues.
.....17.10.2017 14:42:22, Cate [Intoku, WA, <span class="emoji emoji-spritesheet-3" style="background-position: -486px -36px;" title="us">:us:</span>]: >>unsupported service message type: messageActionChatJoinedByLink<<

- So, I suppose something would be gained if we tried to unite ENL and RES who hate scraping against ENL and RES who scrape. But it sure wouldn't be ENL factional unity or focus.

- This would be the cross you die on
.....17.10.2017 14:43:13, Spike (crewellye -PIT ⚜): >>unsupported service message type: messageActionChatJoinedByLink<<

- And it's not that great a cross

- It would be powerfully divisive. We'd have to decide whether to post anonymously (weak, and probably not fooling anyone), whether to serve up a sacrificial lamb (probably me) or whether to present a united front.

- What would be gained?

- Like I'd rather keep the parts of the enlightened that I like than blow up the whole game over this one shitty part.

- Tend to agree

- I guess it would pre-empt the RES accusation that we do it too.

- More leverage with Niantic.
A very different kind of global conversation on the topic.

- (I have limited availability today -- yell if you need me)

- think about that. Instead of it being 'you guys are bad too!' the source of conflict would be between ...who?

- Us and each other.

- We'd end up in a conversation like 'well, if everyone is doing it..so what?'

- The Amish and the non Amish

- {{FWD: Strandit (Seattle, WA, USA), 09.10.2017 13:14:28}}
IITC violates TOS!

- Would an actual pro-cheating faction coalesce and talk about things?

- yeah there'd be a lot of that. And a renewed call for an official Niantic API

- It would change the nature of the guardian refactoring conversation

- If you could get the global conversation there.

It could also go:

you out a bunch of high level RES but cant stop their tool
you out a bunch of high level ENL but cant stop their tool

They say "fuck you, you're cheating too." We say "fuck you, you leaked our tool and cant be trusted." Everyone who didnt have access to scrape data before has access now by contacting someone who does. Some trusted ENL and some RES lose status with Niantic. Niantic posts something ambivalent about scraping violating the terms of the game, but makes no changes.

- It might scare some people into being less awful, on both sides.

- or they could decide that everyone is awful so I will be too.

- It'll definitely be press for the scrapers though

- And I don't think Niantic can realistically block the scraping

- it will be a level playing field of awfulness

- This would not surprise me in the end that both sides are run by one asshole lol

- Niantic cannot stop scraping, but they can marginalize the value of it. Scraping happens because guardians, period.

- Generally agreed.

- People might scrape for alerts

- but the motivation is lessened without guardian

- Yeah, instant notifications about anything that sniffs like BAF is also bad, agreed.

- This would continue without guardian.

- yeah it's there to stay. There's really no help for it.

- and it's fine. We get fields up anyway.

- This is an interesting ethical question.

- [[GIF, size 23'714 bytes]]

- ok. No joy on the API token. They have one but it's locked down. She'd have to request.

- ok.

- so, we're on to the next thing...member lists and in-situ screenshots

- Then userlist?

- yea.

- Could they explore if the IRC gateway is turned on? If it is, they should be able to connect using their user credentials and suck out the history using an IRC client.

- might go down that road after screenshots. This user doesn't seem very technically savvy and I don't want to overload her.

- It seems fairly unlikely -- the slack admins would have to have explicitly turned it on

- Yes, they would, but it's another option since the API key is not.

- [[Photo]]

- do not visit that site please

- Registered April 2016.

- 600 users in the #bot channel

- she's compiling

- Hmm hopefully she knows leaving the channel today would be a bad idea?

- Registered through Google with privacy on.
.....17.10.2017 15:06:03, Merl (Nashville, TN): >>unsupported service message type: messageActionChatJoinedByLink<<

- I think she's pretty on top of protecting her anonymity

- you offered our labor to sort out the list?

- Do we have an idea what is motivating her?

- anything we can do to help. I can tell you basically any agent within 100km of me

- yeah. wasn't pushy. She seems committed to doing the work.

- I'm hoping some people just want to watch the world burn.

- I wonder if the person who created the channel, landspeed, is the same as the Utah RES agent with that name. Park City area.

- No. Haven't gone there yet. Potentially dangerous conversation. Want to get the data in hand first.

- think about the scope of this thing for a second, it's nuts. 600 users in that bot channel

- there are only about 1100 north american users on V

- So... is this BRRN NORAM? RES do not go for parallel power structures like we do.

- Heh, you mean, what ELSE is this slack?

- Probably beyond her access to see where the bot pulls its info, eh?

- They might freely talk about it.

- No, I think BRRN would have a different label than the Brokers Guild

- Agree - unless she's a developer on the bot or in a high enough posiiton she wouldn't have need to know on that.

- It's like asking ENLIO users how it gets its data.

- A girl can dream...

- I must admit to being very interested in the user list to identify if any of our local or regional troublemakers are on it.

- I don't care who it is, my smug satisfaction about being right isn't the point

- THIS

- (but I'm totally right, you guys)

- Was it not common knowledge that this happens?

- It is

- I want them exposed plain and simple. at some point in the future this comes to that, I feel like weve won here

- They know. They know we know. It won't change their behavior

- This comes out legit, whoever this person is, I'll buy them a bottle of scotch.

- I don't agree

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