- Heigh ho!

- There were a few vectors actually, by the time the reddit post was made the screenshots were pretty widespread; RES knew that we had them and that they were real, Sarah's post came several days later when we drew some connections between two groups of incidents

- The initial release was actually viral via DM and local agents were already making snarky comments in comms to RES about it

- To be fair, we weren't "warning" them so much as delivering a personal spit in their faces. ;-)

- And honestly the swarm did a far better job of circulating the screenshots that we could have coordinated ourselves. It was more organic that way, although it was super useful to have a permanent home for the screenshots for easy reference.

- this

- Use Reddit for rabble rousing

- if it's scandalous, you are not likely to encounter much difficulty getting people to reshare it.

- well, you won't be putting all your eggs in one basket either

- They don't usually get involved in this brand of drama

- Also, in lessons learned from the west coast scrapergate, any thoughts about the possibility that RES doesn't consider their use of this tool to be cheating at all?

- Of course, I don't mean that as an argument against releasing it, just that it's one of several outcomes you'll find yourself navigating

- She was POC for a DC anomaly before she moved out here

- What was?

- Hence my previous comment that many of the people involved in this probably don't see themselves as cheaters.

- Like, this is prooobably considered legit as IITC to them. And that will come up.

- The question you need to be able to answer is why this is cheating

- Yes.

- They might not be able to withstand the player backlash if they don't.

- Playerbase is fairly adept at social media

- QED

- And does not widely publicize that since his hire

- Mod scans yay

- we don't use these tools where I play.

- Shit, man, we just talk to each other in the PNW for the most part.

- One might have to think about it very carefully in private, if don't want to have it in public.

- So what is the issue we're currently trying to solve?

- How do we know she?

- How do we know it's even just one person?

- Ah.

- Like all culture, starts with teaching newbies

- It's just a gamification component to motivate people to do things

- Well, there are only 16 levels and fuckall for endgame that isn't emergent gameplay

- There are paid Niantic employees on the roster.

- In addition to vanguards.

- ?

- Oh the share list

- FFS

- a topic for another day πŸ˜‚

- Cool, WB is welcome to know I'm reading this

- +1

- Nah, just means we're into drama πŸ˜‚

- I read everything

- Pretty much.

- Pretty much.

- Kind of makes you wonder why RES is still losing series after series.

- You think?

- πŸ˜‚

- Then we have to adjust our game so they will show up again

- But it won't.

- We are the reason we can't have nice things.

- If someone's IRL job is likely to be on the line, I think a courtesy heads up is a reasonable thing to do.

- What do you think they would do that would stop the momentum underway?

- Agreed.

- The evidence does a pretty fine job of speaking for itself.

- The less we try to spin it, the less vulnerable we are to introducing our own biases at the outset.

- Best to keep it simple.

- I just assumed Resistance Intel Operative Tool.

- why are we notifying anomaly PoCs in specific?

- they aren't employees.

- it's only going to take the time of people who choose to participate. or who are implicated.

- Ah, gotcha.

- This is true for people who aren't anomaly PoCs as well.

- and wherever you draw the line, someone's going to be upset that they weren't in the know.

- I guess I don't see much advantage to be gained by pre-notifying anyone else.

- also, the more people you do notify, the higher the chances that someone decides to do something with the information without consensus.

- Yes.

- With a side of geofencing, yay

- Cute, lots of PNW RES in this dump

- It's helpful to remember how many global wins we've racked up in the last two years.

- Guardian hunting is increasingly the only game RES can still feel they're winning.

- The question I can't stop asking is how RES manages to fail so badly across the board with tools like this at their disposal.

- or, if you prefer, how we manage to win so consistently without these same tools being this ingrained into our culture.

- I try my best to avoid making sweeping statements about how either faction functions, but there are some interesting differences.

- I've been thinking it since Obsidian.
;-)

- Aren't they?

- It's actually my password.

- alea iacta est.

- I don't think that is terribly likely to happen in this situation, but I could be wrong.

- Echoing back the previous sentiment about the added risks with the more people we alert

- I mean, I don't have a strong objection, just wondering if the risk is any different now than it was a few hours ago.

- suggestion: "thousands"

- Banned for spoofing during global shards. Silverspatula is their new IGN.

- making WB into the story is also probably a mistake.

- In another universe where Niantic decrees, scraping in Ingress might not be considered cheating at all.

- That would be nice, yes.

- Or don't give us an API but tell us you don't have the spoons to care right now, like IITC

- I don't think the Vanguards have been granted enough influence by Niantic to be significantly impacted by this.

- well, unless Niantic decides that scraping is now a bannable offense, and bans the vanguards implicated.

- My prediction of the path of least resistance (heh) is that Krug comes back to work on Monday and ignores as much flying poo as possible.

- well, the more easily he can dismiss this as player drama, the better his chances.

- that's why I think we don't have much to gain by humanizing this.

- the facts will speak for themselves: here's a thing, here's who's using it, is it cheating and if so what is Niantic's response?

- I just think it's probably a mistake to lead with "look, we have this person on the inside, click here for all the scandalous things they're showing us." I don't get the impression we are moving strongly in that direction, it's just an observation of a potential hazard.

- Keep it simple. No one who's seen the intel dump has failed to come up with the same conclusions on their own, without being led to it.

- [[😳 Sticker, size 29'168 bytes]]

- At any given time there are multiple informants between Niantic, ENL, and RES. See previous conversation re: 50 people can't keep a secret.

- This.

- Never hurry, never worry. riot.one is down.

- which means RES is aware, and an accelerated release schedule is on the table.

- TY

- I'm going to get some coffee in me at some point this morning

- It's already being reshared on the G+

- the dumpster fire has achieved self-awareness.

- Isn't Krug on vacay?

- So does giving 900 people license to cheat

- Re-rolling is acceptable to NIA; the scraper is not.

- Just about every PNW RES agent who was banned for spoofing this year is in it.

- Semi, if you don't, we probably don't.

- The evidence would be fairly easy for NIA Ops to validate independently; I'm not even sure Krug is the best contact point anymore. This is quickly escalating beyond the community level.

- Yes, can we stop devoting cycles to that thread?

- A resource to get spoofers banned sure has a lot of banned spoofers in it

- That occasionally works at a local scale. It doesn't have a leg to stand on here.

- They're going to make themselves look pretty foolish, then. ;-)

- Dunno. It's useful for historical purposes, but it's not related to the current thread.

- oh yeah, good thought

- Hey, all you wonderful people. If you haven't gotten up since this went public, here is your timely reminder to take a stretch break and try to eat something. I recommend an apple.

- We are nailing this campaign so far

- Not sure it changes anything.

- I've been here all day XD

- No, we saw it happen in real time.

- {{FWD: Pongolyn | Seattle, WA, 19.10.2017 11:31:58}}
At any given time there are multiple informants between Niantic, ENL, and RES. See previous conversation re: 50 people can't keep a secret.

- awwww

- maybe that's what they meant to put up on the website they couldn't get into

- I did catch one person complaining they weren't, and claimed to be a RIOT user. ;-)

- OTOH, WB explicitly did not deny it was them.

- Ah well. Moving on.

- Check Krug ama

- More like "I'm happy with its current place in the community" IIRC

- Totally, let's all just spoof πŸ˜‘

- There are still spoofers using it

- Great. Tired.

- Morale is great locally. Res are silent.

- I figured they were trying to get their shit together. Or killing guardians

- Like, it could even be a lie about what they did, but they still came out and said "this isn't okay and here's what I think people should do about it"

- (not that I have any present reason to believe they're lying)

- ...

- I might have a local folder labeled "RIOTgate" but I promise not to say that in public

- Hey @theprevaricator sorry about Gategate

- ::spins up a wuffgate::

- okay I'm done, sorry, it made me laugh

- I know him and he didn't ping me! D:

- I'm going to have to make him feel bad for that.

- Gross. Let us know if we can help any more.

- You sound like me about two weeks into shards

- Don't forget, fatigue is often worse than not getting everything done.

- I don't need your approval, the team needs your best.

- 🐲

- I imagine more res will be speaking out about things tomorrow.

- Shade as well as support.

- We will need to catch both.

- But it's maybe a good idea to think about the outcomes we'd like to see from this.

- respond to as appropriate

- Bans would be a helpful signal from Niantic as to their position on the matter, for sure

- We absolutely do have multiple goals. That's fine by me 😊

- No better time to push it, IMO.

- Recharge is solidly on ice until q1

- It is known ☹️

- I don't want one. πŸ˜‚

- I grew up as a player assuming the game would sunset before I hit 16. The last two years have been an extended bonus round.

- Outgress already a TOS violation for charging money for services, but.

- I don't even mind some gentleman's agreement. But as players, we shouldn't be shouldering all the burden for figuring out how to play fair.

- Welp, if the RES party line is that they have Niantic's blessing to use this to catch enlightened spoofers, all Niantic has to do is say "yes, that's true"

- Yup.

- if RES is dumb enough to push it, easy shutdown

- Good idea

- +1

- Outgress also charges money for their services, which is maybe easier for Niantic to shut down. But not my top priority this weekend.

- When you join the Broker's Guild do they make you sign something that says you'll never enable comments on future G+ posts?

- She enabled reshares

- I kind of want to hijack it

- [[Photo]]reposting

- I don't actualy see anything wrong with RES noticing that we have an organized social media machine, because hell yes we talk to each other and we care about this

- I think any RES agent who is making public statements against cheating should be thanked and amplified

- even if they are not doing any other action in their community, they are telling their teammates they oppose it

- and that is positive momentum for all of us.

- I love this screenshot

- It may be wise to refrain from pushing too many Niantic buttons until Krug is back from vacation at least. We've got a lot of material right here.

- doubling down on the #PlayClean soap

- I don't know that it really matters, it is undeniable the tool exists and it is undeniable the 900 people do not comprise a full roster--at some point you can safely assume it is "very widespread"

- I imagine it will not be especially difficult to pull up the instances of high profile res agents on the roster admitting to their involvement

- They have not exactly been shy about doing so.

- I have been punctuating these with heartfelt apologies to the agent whose teammates have been keeping dirty secrets from them. 😁

- Resist attempts to derail, be candid and truthful otherwise

- RES is triggering nicely on "whataboutism" πŸ˜‚

- "stop posting that word I can't get past it!"

- Awwww

- Meanwhile rel is doing his best to dox people in another thread

- Ha

- "off reddit"

- sup?

- Also known locally as the "Joe Philley Rule of Cool"

- Reactive RES can't be proactive posters :)

- I try my best to weigh responses to one's fuckups far more than the initial fuckups themselves

- He's also very good at liking people, in case it wasn't obvious.

- I've run across one or two agents in the past who'd done messed up things and were able to convince their peers they'd reformed.

- 6-12mos exile from the community, name change and gain trust from their peers that they would never do it again before readmitting felt reasonable in those cases.

- But it really depends on the situation.

- None of the people I've ever successfully restored to the community ever messed up again, to my knowledge, but there's lots of agents who couldn't make it a month before doing something awful again

- There was once an fielder who got so mad at his local spoofers that he did it himself once and made a public g+ post on how it was done as an expose. He knew he'd be ejected from fielding and was okay with that.

- About a year later, having maintained an absolutely pristine track record, he was allowed to participate in a field in which two agents personally accompanied him

- We still make agent selfie every single time they're in the field, no matter where they go

- But they aren't "that guy who spoofed" anymore.

- Reconciliation can happen.

- But it's not always easy.

- Dear Erich, will you please light my cause on fire with your magic? 🐲

- Was it ever actually down, or just the web interface?

- [[😳 Sticker, size 29'168 bytes]]

- New phone, who this

- Reasonable.

- I'm pretty familiar with the part of my personal toolset that Tiernan developed and confident I can defend their use to a public audience if they receive scrutiny, and go without them if they become unavailable for any reason, or no reason.

- From what?

- I'm not familiar with this link, or at least my new laptop isn't. What is it?

- I miss Erich

- I am...not sure I ever had access, but I don't now.

- By the way, what's the cutoff year for OG?

- Who?

- I think I left it a couple weeks ago

- load up Yackety Sax

- I haven't checked into it in a long minute, but its most interesting aspect IMO was that it demystified how MU is actually calculated, largely from user-submitted field data.

- Is Tiernan a BE dev? I have no idea.