- [[Webpage]]https://plus.google.com/106063739913433767287/posts/SgZHkCdFq12

- We're gonna need to collect the G+ posts somewhere

- Getting the bragging screenshots to Krug (and Niantic by extension) will be critical to show they can’t poopoo it when the player openly admits to it.

- That medic guy, is he a medical marvel? I suspect his mouth and his ass are the reverse of the rest of us.

- 6k visitors, 120k views.

- Shall we start a spreadsheet?

- How bout this? https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16ZSMb-FLiJckeKcuPI21gJhf2DkoO822Il4_QjDavUs/edit#gid=0

- I think it's more nothing but ass lol

- 👍

- 😆

- I will not share Andrew's private message convos with me. My apologies.

- confirm or deny he was like "holy fucking shit"

- Oh, no problem at all, didn't realize that's what you were referring to. 🙂

- No apology needed whatsoever.

- I can say this much....we needed proof of them using it. Actually pulling stuff up.

- Them being members isn't enough.

- I said that early on

- We have that, right?

- Nice post Becca, thank you. Reshared.

- Andrew is listening and we have his attention

- so we need days of screenshots?

- But we need to get him that

- It's on the site

- Anatomy of a hit

- 👍

- It needs to be enough for Niantic to make an unambiguous statement of whether this kind of thing is acceptable

- @TheRealVedorian he means each person pulling data

- I pointed him to that

- if i didnt pull data, but am a member in the group...

- Plus some other things that he could possibly use as well

- Oh okay. That would have been impossible in the small time frame we had I think

- Not what you know, what you can prove.

- yep

- I'm going to stitch that somewhere.

- For bans to happen, yes, I would imagine we need actual use. But I hope they are also seeing the bigger picture here

- This

- They are, but the bans would have been nice.

- My guess is what they want would require acess to the system itself. Full access at that.

- We got what we got, and it is enough. It is as damning as it can possibly be. If the Niantic response to this is 'not enough information', then there CAN NEVER be enough information.

We should not enable that bullshit line of response. This is not the time for victim blaming.

- Well yes, very very nice in many cases!

- Bingo.

- As a former employee of multiple MMO companies: the evidence provided would be sufficient for bans for many of those involved.

- Isn't Krug on vacay?

- hes responding on and off in at least 1 room

- Well officially, but we kinda rained on his day off

- LOL

- Well, we DID give him a head's up...

- It would not lead to bans for every single one of those 900 people, but I would expect action against some.

- Yeah, the position NIA is in right now is very uncomfortable with that.

- Banning 900 players in America could lead to bad things

- Itd become too strong on one faction.

- then people stop playing

- So does giving 900 people license to cheat

- Not even about that; the level of proof and involvement is relevant.

- that too

- Oh, I dunno, seems like a lot of these bastards would just re-roll.

- yup

- for sure

- Re-rolling is acceptable to NIA; the scraper is not.

- But it's extremely unwise to do nothing, and most companies in this space would recognize that.

- rougehelifyre is in it.

- Just about every PNW RES agent who was banned for spoofing this year is in it.

- Great.

- @Strandit I am not familiar with devices and stuff - Can a dev design it so if we ban someone that the app won't work on a phone again

- like a mac address

- Nope; both Apple and Google are very careful about exposing underlying device IDs these days, for privacy reasons.

- No. Not a technical but policy limitation.

- hmm

- I have a design for preserving a newly generated device ID across reinstalls on the same device, but it works poorly if the company only develops a single app.

- IMEI numbers are unique, right? But Google and Apple won't permit it?

- Right. And you can fuck with them if you're sufficiently smart.

- share between pokemon and ingress?

- The right answer is policy, not technical. "Don't reroll, we will ban you if we catch you."

- Which prevents the sanctimonious "well reroll is OK" response.

- yup

- Ahh.

- I'm somewhat oversimplifying here, but it's safe to say "no, banning by device ID is too hard."

- Thank you

- Circling back to Krug, it should be made clear that all the channels for data pulls were open - if you were in this slack it's because you knew what it was.

- It's enough to cause embarrassment to some, bans for others, and no particular change for yet even more. We've given Andrew info, yes, but he NEEDS a way to validate it. People can keep ignoring this point all they want to, but it's still a factor. I thought the intent here was to effect change, not just to "out" that Res are using scrapers. If the only intent of this was to get the dev fired, the Vanguards let go, and some PoCs on the hot sheet, then we're not going to effect change in the overall game mechanics.

- 7k, 140k. Feels like acceleration

- Just my $0.02.

- There won't be a change in game mechanics unless thers is a consequence from Niantic.

- I'm waiting to see what happens on Monday

- It's going to be....interesting

- Yes, we can't lose focus on longterm change

- We can only hope. :)

- [[Photo]]

- The NLE PoC chat has gone disturbingly silent

- I don't think they understand their name is on a list because they actively participated in the slack - at least in signing up for an account knowing what it was.

- Niantic's in a fairly awkward technical position too.

- This is not an American court of law unless Niantic makes it one. They can absolutely demand any burden of proof they want, whether loose or strict, and they can even decide that anyone in the Brokers Guild Slack is guilty until proven innocent. Do I expect any of that? No. The point is, Niantic has a choice.

- 2.0 right around the corner. do you devote dev resources to fixing these problems and delay a really key reelase?

- Probably not, especially if you believe that 2.0 has changes which will disrupt it.

- The info is out there for Niantic to do something with. There are a lot of agents who are being very vocal now about how much this is Not Okay. Niantic should respond in SOME way. If they do (which they may not, because this is Niantic after all) then that's effecting change

- But looking at how endemic cheating is to PhGo I'm not excited about it.

- {{FWD: Andrew Krug, 19.10.2017 14:18:15}}
Question. I've seen some allegations of Slackfarmer using or selling data. The person said the proof was provided to Niantic. But how? Could it be provided to me?

- Do we have anything on this?

- @Catw0man1 I got a comment from Rob on my re-share of @TheRealVedorian post :)

- woah

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