- Nor am I tied in and up to the curve like the rest of you. But this pissed me off just as much.
And I'm trying to look at this from outside the beltway. It doesn't matter the level of proof if confidence is high the average rank and file player will care. It will change the dynamic as it spreads Niantic will have to acknowledge this and adjust for it, the level of official action is uncertain but it can't be ignored.

- I recognized names on the list but unlike you I do not personally know them. Just as I have never been asked to join a ENL GH group (and I would not unless it was to turn states evidence) I know there are RES out there that are of the same as myself. Blue does not equal bad. Heat will come from both sides, this is not just an old establishment issue.

- I just want to check with Bryant since he provided that info as context and I want to make sure we're planning to release it

- Do not use a Disaster to host the website, they are involved in the enl version of this. All Chicago leadership is.

- She's right about the Disaster group

- I don think all.

- I can't speak for all Chicago leadership, but I know that many of the "disaster" group hunts.

- You would be wrong

- They know and condone if not directly involved

- Perhaps I think of leadership differently

- Anyone attached to this (hopefully none of us will need to be) needs to be above reproach

- Or else it will be NO U arguments until the end of fucking time

- Thinking about it a little more. I'm just wondering about hankes response to this

- "Above reproach" is so subjective it's almost impossible to decide who qualifies. Because from the outside, being on an access list appears damning... And from the inside you have people in this very chat rationalizing the relative badness of scraping for some things and not others.

- Because we are ENL, we are automatically out of the running for "above reproach" to many many RES.

- And vice versa

- There is no ENL version of this. But yes, they hunt.

- Right, ENL scrapers have a different featureset

- There isn't anything this organized, but from the average agent's perspective, how is it different?

- Let's not be pedantic

- I apologise. I don't mean to argue, and I am not defending the disasters. It's an issue here on many levels, no question. I am just bristling at the general idea that my own efforts to be leader here have counted or nothing because I am not part of the group that is cheating. That is on me, not anyone here.

- "unsanctioned tool" is a slippery slope. Iitc is unsanctioned but it's even more widespread than this res scraping business. I could see Nia making the absolute wrong move and banning everyone who has ever used iitc

- Because if we give them the slightest bit of space to fuck things up for enl, they will

- We just need to be very careful to avoid making false claims because those are really easy for them to call us on. We can say here that there's no ENL version of this; xfac that's fuzzier and we can't say it.

- What actual work is done now? Is there a doc with the relevant text to go into the website? Is a host identified?

- 💚

- No worries, I meant no u arguments from res. Which they always retreat to when called out.

- Like children

- Yes and they will be pedantic af

- There's a doc being revised; I made a bunch of changes/suggestions but I don't know if people like them. I think Semi's still asleep. That's here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fERELXXix5B1QIgqc0QeTgPvQ5j-7_62nykRaTQ7vSg/edit?usp=drive_web

Erich sorted out the images and put them here: https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0B4vJMsAqJgF1Z0dYOXhFYlJ6VFU

- Lol I live pedantic af. Bring it

- All double slashes need to be removed before publishing

- They are used in all Aurora G+ posts and will be immediately recognized

- Well, also, we need to put the content in that they indicate.

- But we can't do that until it's hosted.

- Keep style neutral

- I'm not being pedantic. This is 30-40 times larger than anything I've ever seen, and more advanced. In my mind its a different class.

- Should we spinoff a tg for offtopic but important arguments?

- sorry.

- They have the same motivation, just less skill

- And less community buy in, thank goodness

- I have to close this chat for awhile. I'm no longer in my own company. I'll use this as a marker. #CatsPlace

- Thank you for your help, Nadia

- I'll finish with that list much later. I won't be alone again until after the event later tonight

- I added comments and edited

- Looks good to me

- Understand your point well and I had considered that, the point i wanted to impart was we keep drilling on proof of scraping, I think the point should be on that a type of tool is being used for DATABASE And DISTRIBUTION information that by their own privacy statement implies should be protected. That is a dynamic that drive this and needs changed.
I think we all realize or believe the will be no large mass banning of accounts over this. But it brings to light the argument that element of the game (guardian) has been exploited into its own game, damaging relations within the game itself xfac and I am sure within faction. .

- Yes we need to proceed with caution and level heads and without a shotgun

- We need more info on how EU privacy works, there could be something to include on that front

- I think EU privacy mostly applies to servers hosted in the EU.

- Is it pass through, though?

- This is really going hand in hand with a lot of recent guardian discussion and I want to tie it together but the concrete evidence isn't there on the guardian end

- EU privacy laws are very strict

- I'll be catching up shortly and try to offer up any value I can with what is needed

- Like how the NSA claims that any data routed through US networks are open to their scrutiny

- I can provide the law as soon as I get to my desk top. Although it is an easy search short sweet written on a 4th grade kwvel.

- Where the data goes could be important and I thought the developer was in NL

- But when this breaks it can be used as ample fodder for the guardian mechanic debate and why it should go away

- There are a couple people listed as devs there

- Yeah, we need to provide something very objective and neutral first. Then once it breaks people will try to spin it all different directions.

- Without safe harbor laws for pass through business on internet from Europe would not be possible as our laws don't protect the information as required.

- This is relevant in the sense that Niantic might be more motivated to take action if they might be embroiled in legal trouble due to player base activity

- Just a thought, probably not in scope

- Okay, so what needs to be done is adding appropriate screenshots to the document and establishing a site to disseminate this content?

- Do we want to circle up and tag as many of these users as possible in the initial post?

- Just the important ones, Niantic and Vanguards, I think

- And recent PoCs

- So as many as possible?

- Niantic legal problem would be little compared to the agents personal troubles in Europe gathering info on European agents

- Oh, you mean on the G+ repost of the site

- I have a RES circle, they're getting all this

- When it happens. Fuckers.

- Tipping our hand now by sending out a bunch of invites/follows is probably not a good idea

- Lol yeah invite stating join bedore this release date and time

- No, I think that's kind of creepy/stalkery. But we could tag ALL the vanguards.

- Yes that would be the move

- Either way, we've done everything we can do. Strandit or someone else will have to do the website stuff

- Let me be the first to offer to pay for the website.

- Based on the conversation above, I'm starting to believe we don't have nearly enough screenshots of agents actually using the tools

- Agreed, we need to continue to get more and more screenshots if possible

- The more of those we have the better

- Two of my smurfs are pictured already

- I would be so happy if there was a screenshot of them looking me up

- At least I would know where my guardian is LOL

- But what I have is them searching a database around a zip code and checking their score

- It's just that the zip code happens to be 7 hrs out of his AO and within 10 km of 3 of my guardian portals

- So based on what we have I know that exists of me, but to see it would be the smoking gun.

- Regardless, more shots of agents querying players is needed, even if it means delay

- [[GIF, size 16'293 bytes]]

- But why wouldn't he just search on your agent id

- It's a good question. I'm saying there's a good chance that exists, but it might have been wiped at this point

- We happened to catch a related query

- This is probably a reason we can get WB to understand

- Whoever The Whistleblower is is going to get caught up in this. Either their name is going to show up on the list or they're going to be singled out and found by the resistance after publication

- One name in 900 is fairly anonymous. But yeah, res will do an ugly witch hunt and probably find them. We need to let that happen

- well if there's a way to anonymously send someone a bottle of Scotch without actually knowing where to send it I will figure that way out

- Lol 💚

- Doesn't Amazon have delivery lockers?

- It seems quite odd and coincidental that the zip code he was searching happens to be the exact area that you would be sent to look if you queried me. The only reason my portals are not listed is that they're in a place that is heavily green and has portals that have been untouched for over a year. And it's not somewhere an agent from Erie PA would just randomly search--it's not in our cell or the surrounding cells, etc. as soon as I input that zip code and that area came up I knew what exactly what he was looking for. But as was said above, what I am 99% sure of, and what we can prove are two different things.

- I still would have to know a general vicinity I guess but yes they do that's a good idea

Prev
Next