Whistle Orga

So... is this BRRN NORAM? RES do not go for parallel power structures like we do.

Heh, you mean, what ELSE is this slack?

Probably beyond her access to see where the bot pulls its info, eh?

They might freely talk about it.

No, I think BRRN would have a different label than the Brokers Guild

Agree - unless she's a developer on the bot or in a high enough posiiton she wouldn't have need to know on that.

It's like asking ENLIO users how it gets its data.

A girl can dream...

I must admit to being very interested in the user list to identify if any of our local or regional troublemakers are on it.

I don't care who it is, my smug satisfaction about being right isn't the point

THIS

(but I'm totally right, you guys)

Was it not common knowledge that this happens?

It is

I want them exposed plain and simple. at some point in the future this comes to that, I feel like weve won here

They know. They know we know. It won't change their behavior

This comes out legit, whoever this person is, I'll buy them a bottle of scotch.

I don't agree

Making everyone aware of the behavior is more impactful

That's kinda what I mean by exposure.

Additionally should ban these agents from anomalies lol

There's elite behavior and opinion, and there's rank-and-file behavior and opinion.

Are these 600 the elite or the rank-and-file?

Excellent question.

Whistle has described the documentation work she's going to do. It's comprehensive and well thought out.

I am in the same sector as an agent that openly posted about his use of scraping tools and offered to use them for the benefit of people in the general channel of the anomaly Slack. It's a big problem everywhere.

Please don't lose sight of the fact that we may end up exposing this on both sides. I think the more rational and objective and emotionally distanced we can be in our approach, the better.

I know there are going to be a lot of gotcha! moments as the list comes out, but let's stay professional.

How is that not what I just said?

And bite our tongues

Sorry late to respond biuncing down the road now.
In response to a large amount of back log read.
Agreed
1) this info and whistleblower/mole seems legit
2) for now the conversation remains here
3) when the information is complied we act as a group.

Let's postulate elite. Even if the entire RES elite cadre is implicated and they close ranks, they've grievously wounded their recruitment and retention. We can expect many FCs from disgusted, morally outraged agents.


Or maybe it's rank-and-file. In which case we will give the RES elite the opportunity to either endorse or disavow. If they endorse, we're back to case 1. If they disavow, (and possibly even if they don't), they admit to the presence of a parallel power structure in the RES outside of their control. That's damaging to RES narratives all on its own.

ENL is more fragmented and pretty publicly so. The stakes are also high but not symmetrical.

sorry, didn't mean to insult you.

Visible to us != public

Mmm, true.

What defines Elite?

If it is visible to me, it is public. Not saying I have a big mouth (I mean, I do) but I am pretty Intentional about limiting what information I get about ENL as a whole. I don't know who pulls what strings, nor do I really care.

Why are we talking about enl? I have yet to see evidence. (YES I know it happens i'm not stupid, lol) let's just see what we got here first.

I've watched this rodeo before. Been told we're whining to ask for an agreement about fair play standards. That my local teammates clearly also cheat because someone took out a guardian candidate once. Or because we use IITC.


People rationalize this kind of cheating to an extent that you will not believe. Be prepared for this.

play drivers, decision influencers. Anomaly orga, superagents, operators, BAF designers

I say we stomp out scraping and spoofing in whatever form we find it. Today we seem to have found it under the Res flag. If tomorrow we see it under Enl flag, we do the same.

Because some people in here are excited about exposing all the scraping to guardian hunt, not just RES.

Specifically, because multiple options for pulling this same kind of information on ENL networks exists, and I'm having a hard time justifying releasing the RES stuff if I'm not willing to do that work and release the ENL stuff too.

Well I hear ya. If we get undeniable evidence though, we probably have to move forward with it otherwise we condone it.

I'm in favor of showing our hand (if we had the capability to do so) at the same time that we blow up the Res engine

It's a question of proactivity. We know it exists, and I think I could go get it. Do I have an obligation to do so? Maybe. Is there a qualitative difference between not ignoring it because it's being handed to you, and not ignoring it because it would take work to ferret out?

No judgement here, but you may find the goal of upsetting the RES anomaly engine and revealing ENL issues to be incompatible with one another if the two happen simultaneously.

So I'd suspect you'd probably want to get your general ducks in a row regarding targeting the same outcome.

I'm a big fan of burn it all to the ground, just pointing out a tension.

I'm not talking about anomalies. I couldn't be further removed from anomalykind if I tried. I'm talking about putting their GH factory into the spotlight

yeah, it's an entirely different dynamic. We've talked about it some.

Not just speaking about you. When goals were discussed earlier, it was noted that the timing of the release may affect their anomaly planning.

There's an awful lot of sorting to do before we have an action plan.

Gotcha. Just that I'd called it their engine and then you said anomaly engine. Wanted to be clear.

is there value to doing that work and having it at the ready but not simultaneously releasing it?

i honestly don't know, i am just throwing out any question i can think of that might come at us

hm

I have screenshots to most of my guardian kills, if I can match up pulls of my data timestamped awith then the times my guards died... it would be juicy.

The whistle blower's goals are important here too and will impact the timing. If Charlie doesn't move on it they could assume he won't and release it through other means.


I don't mean to say that there's a deadline here, but there are lots of moving parts to be considered.

Even though Niantic is working on Guardian changes, I worry that they're just going to implement something different but equally vulnerable to spoofing and scraping.


If we could comprehensively prove institutional-level scraping on both sides of the factional fence, it'd be powerful leverage for getting shitty game dynamics permanently removed.

Yeah. I'm going to have that conversation with her as soon as the data is in hand.

I'd also like to create an environment where we can all talk, I think.

need to chew that over some more

IMO even if you remove guardian as a badge there is a certain set of player who will continue to treat it as a goal to eliminate their opponents guardians (even if they are not called that or tracked any more)

I can bot relay between here an a HO. But I dont think you want that.

I look at the Top down approach
We know the existence of information scraping on both sides the tools exist. But exposing a player or small group does little for the effort. Exposing a Network on either side that is actively exploiting or promoting the tools for their own game. Is the dynamic changer. I is difficult to see the fallout from this. Much can be speculated but the dynamics of players and interaction of players will change.

It will be important to determine with near certainty the veracity of the information before inviting such a person into a chat with some/many from our side.

I think that would be fine. Taking it out of the badgeosphere neuters the shit out of it.

I agree, just thikn it's important to note it won't be total elimination.

Stalking will always exist

let's be honest, thats what GH is

it's watching an opponent or adversarys every move, recording it, and arriving there yourself at a later date

it's obsession

It won't go away, but if you expose it with incoontrivertable evidence, many can no longer hide behind false masks.

Quite this. When our opponents will shell out hundreds of dollars to prevent someone getting a badge that's dedication to a cause.

And NO ONE want's to be caught naked like that

We get tractable evidence, its valuable to the team and damaging to the res

GH is the primary gameplay motivation for a whole slew of asshats. It would be satisfying to simply take that away from them, all at once.

Perhaps then, less asshats

amen

Oh lovely, evilsuperheros is ST louis BRRN

Backlogging time brb

sorry, that came off pretty harsh. I know some of y'all like legit guardian hunting. I don't mean to be insulting. I've just always hated the mechanic and don't understand why it's such a powerful motivation for some people. It's like pulling the wings off of flies.

Ohai.

I got spoofed i felt special

They dance for me like the puppets they are.

Yes but when there is no game point for one to hold onto a guardian the dynamic changes. LESS of us will try to obtain it and there for less reason to try to stalk. I've earned my 147day guardian badge over 4 times in fine with that.
there would be nothing for the hunters take away from candidates .

I actually agree with you. If they can't hide in the shadows, i feel like many will up and leave all together

not all, I get that

I don't fault teammates who want to GH, but it in my experiences just causes so much bad behavior and ill will, and there are a few players in my area who would be totally lost without it. I would not mind watching that. Perhaps I am going to the special hell.

Yes not all will give it up bit tthe field changes

I don't know what my local hunters will do with their life.

lol

ah yup.

Hopefully not engage in actual strategic gameplay

well, i do know. mine would burn every portal owned by anyone they think might have been involved with having the badge removed or revealing the scraping etc.

that seems ok

let em get it out of their system