Whistle Orga

And list evidence.

I think I’d take the position that it can only logically be described as a scraper - paint any dispute to that as illogical on its face.

Patreon is pretty vague

[[Photo]]

[[Photo]]Screenshot (Oct 18, 2017 8:04:51 AM)

"scanning the entire globe in close to real time"

Not the patreon itself; I haven't gone to the page. But this PDF -- it makes specific reference to scanning

right

And then the other sheet that lists the "benefits" you get with different donation tiers

its pretty damning

I think i missed that one

And “disk space to keep everything “

"scanning computers"

Put that right beside a screenshot of the TOS that says "you agree not to do this stuff" and, well.

That doc comes from a different source though, I'd want Bryant's guidance on if it's appropriate to release

Doesn't it come from a link in the Slack?

If we're not looking to out WB then the sources are kind of .... not irrelevant, but. @Aneristic your objection is that this PDF didn't come from the same source as the rest of our info?

Sorry, that was all inside out. I'm still basically asleep.

This..

ok, so need some help on the Post Text.


I dont just want to point at TOS and say "look TOS, they violated TOS" because although from a technical standpoint that is how they cheated, the cheating matters because of what they did with it. I tried some things but jillian said I was handwaving, and maybe so. How do you say "what they did with the thing was a whole nother problem" really well.

Ohai. Good morning 900 message backlog

I have not read all of this but the fundraising aspect of this has me gobsmacked.

Let's not get hung up on just proving it is scraper data. It looks like it is and regardless of the source it is being provided from an Unsanctioned tool that as I read it is a ToS violation in itself.
I don't think we need "undisputable" proof As there will always be Naysayers, conspiracy theories, And those that look at it being an undefined Gray area.
There is enough here to make anybody reading it say what the fuck.
II am likely the newest player to the game among all of you. I haven't been around long enough for even one anniversary badge.

And this morning I am wondering if the majority of local resistance in Chicago know about this and choose not to go there, or if they simply don't know about it.

And I am a little nervous that the revelation of this will be but a ripple here. No names on the list will be surprising.

From the way its structured, the people in omnivore list have the ability to make their own bot room, meaning that most probably your chicago res are in those lower tiered room run by one of the guys in omnivore

Nor am I tied in and up to the curve like the rest of you. But this pissed me off just as much.
And I'm trying to look at this from outside the beltway. It doesn't matter the level of proof if confidence is high the average rank and file player will care. It will change the dynamic as it spreads Niantic will have to acknowledge this and adjust for it, the level of official action is uncertain but it can't be ignored.

I recognized names on the list but unlike you I do not personally know them. Just as I have never been asked to join a ENL GH group (and I would not unless it was to turn states evidence) I know there are RES out there that are of the same as myself. Blue does not equal bad. Heat will come from both sides, this is not just an old establishment issue.

I just want to check with Bryant since he provided that info as context and I want to make sure we're planning to release it

Do not use a Disaster to host the website, they are involved in the enl version of this. All Chicago leadership is.

She's right about the Disaster group

I don think all.

I can't speak for all Chicago leadership, but I know that many of the "disaster" group hunts.

You would be wrong

They know and condone if not directly involved

Perhaps I think of leadership differently

Anyone attached to this (hopefully none of us will need to be) needs to be above reproach

Or else it will be NO U arguments until the end of fucking time

Thinking about it a little more. I'm just wondering about hankes response to this

"Above reproach" is so subjective it's almost impossible to decide who qualifies. Because from the outside, being on an access list appears damning... And from the inside you have people in this very chat rationalizing the relative badness of scraping for some things and not others.

Because we are ENL, we are automatically out of the running for "above reproach" to many many RES.

And vice versa

There is no ENL version of this. But yes, they hunt.

Right, ENL scrapers have a different featureset

There isn't anything this organized, but from the average agent's perspective, how is it different?

Let's not be pedantic

I apologise. I don't mean to argue, and I am not defending the disasters. It's an issue here on many levels, no question. I am just bristling at the general idea that my own efforts to be leader here have counted or nothing because I am not part of the group that is cheating. That is on me, not anyone here.

"unsanctioned tool" is a slippery slope. Iitc is unsanctioned but it's even more widespread than this res scraping business. I could see Nia making the absolute wrong move and banning everyone who has ever used iitc

Because if we give them the slightest bit of space to fuck things up for enl, they will

We just need to be very careful to avoid making false claims because those are really easy for them to call us on. We can say here that there's no ENL version of this; xfac that's fuzzier and we can't say it.

What actual work is done now? Is there a doc with the relevant text to go into the website? Is a host identified?

💚

No worries, I meant no u arguments from res. Which they always retreat to when called out.

Like children

Yes and they will be pedantic af

There's a doc being revised; I made a bunch of changes/suggestions but I don't know if people like them. I think Semi's still asleep. That's here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fERELXXix5B1QIgqc0QeTgPvQ5j-7_62nykRaTQ7vSg/edit?usp=drive_web


Erich sorted out the images and put them here: https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0B4vJMsAqJgF1Z0dYOXhFYlJ6VFU

Lol I live pedantic af. Bring it

All double slashes need to be removed before publishing

They are used in all Aurora G+ posts and will be immediately recognized

Well, also, we need to put the content in that they indicate.

But we can't do that until it's hosted.

Keep style neutral

I'm not being pedantic. This is 30-40 times larger than anything I've ever seen, and more advanced. In my mind its a different class.

Should we spinoff a tg for offtopic but important arguments?

sorry.

They have the same motivation, just less skill

And less community buy in, thank goodness

I have to close this chat for awhile. I'm no longer in my own company. I'll use this as a marker. #CatsPlace

Thank you for your help, Nadia

I'll finish with that list much later. I won't be alone again until after the event later tonight

I added comments and edited

Looks good to me

Understand your point well and I had considered that, the point i wanted to impart was we keep drilling on proof of scraping, I think the point should be on that a type of tool is being used for DATABASE And DISTRIBUTION information that by their own privacy statement implies should be protected. That is a dynamic that drive this and needs changed.
I think we all realize or believe the will be no large mass banning of accounts over this. But it brings to light the argument that element of the game (guardian) has been exploited into its own game, damaging relations within the game itself xfac and I am sure within faction. .

Yes we need to proceed with caution and level heads and without a shotgun

We need more info on how EU privacy works, there could be something to include on that front

I think EU privacy mostly applies to servers hosted in the EU.

Is it pass through, though?

This is really going hand in hand with a lot of recent guardian discussion and I want to tie it together but the concrete evidence isn't there on the guardian end

EU privacy laws are very strict

I'll be catching up shortly and try to offer up any value I can with what is needed

Like how the NSA claims that any data routed through US networks are open to their scrutiny

I can provide the law as soon as I get to my desk top. Although it is an easy search short sweet written on a 4th grade kwvel.

Where the data goes could be important and I thought the developer was in NL

But when this breaks it can be used as ample fodder for the guardian mechanic debate and why it should go away

There are a couple people listed as devs there

Yeah, we need to provide something very objective and neutral first. Then once it breaks people will try to spin it all different directions.

Without safe harbor laws for pass through business on internet from Europe would not be possible as our laws don't protect the information as required.

This is relevant in the sense that Niantic might be more motivated to take action if they might be embroiled in legal trouble due to player base activity

Just a thought, probably not in scope

Okay, so what needs to be done is adding appropriate screenshots to the document and establishing a site to disseminate this content?

Do we want to circle up and tag as many of these users as possible in the initial post?

Just the important ones, Niantic and Vanguards, I think

And recent PoCs

So as many as possible?

Niantic legal problem would be little compared to the agents personal troubles in Europe gathering info on European agents

Oh, you mean on the G+ repost of the site

I have a RES circle, they're getting all this

When it happens. Fuckers.

Tipping our hand now by sending out a bunch of invites/follows is probably not a good idea

Lol yeah invite stating join bedore this release date and time